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Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Jos

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

squirrel skrev:
Ok här kommer en liten sammanställning av Systemets härlig ockerpriser på 2006:eek:rna

Systemet Parker England Skillnad
Château Canon La Gaffelière 720 92 473 247
Château Bahans Haut-Brion 858 88 352 506
Château Dauzac 299 87 382 -83
Château Lagrange 404 91 276 128
Château l'Angélus 1888 95 1031 857
Château Lynch-Bages 664 92 580 84
Château Magdelaine 650 90 512 138
Château Pape-Clement 1434 95 862 572
Château Prieuré-Lichine 371 90 322 49
Domaine de Chevalier 422 92 294 128

För de där priserna kan du köpa färdiglagrat från 80-talet.
 

squirrel

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Om det säljs en enda flaska Bahans Haut-Brion borde det utdelas spöstraff till den skyldige...
Hur tänkte SS vid prissättningen?
 

anders

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

squirrel skrev:
Hur tänkte SS vid prissättningen?

Tänka? Vid en statlig inrättning? Nu har du nog blandat ihop begreppen... ;)
 

Pomerol

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Jos skrev:
För de där priserna kan du köpa färdiglagrat från 80-talet.

Javisst, men man måste ju ha lite framförhållning också.

Tack squirrel för sammanställningen av prisskillnaden. Intressant!
 

Andreas L

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Lando skrev:

Hos någon trevlig näthandlare som man kan lita på, rare wine i Tyskland till exempel... Mycket bra om man vill komplettera samlingen med några mogna godbitar...
 

anders

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Andreas L skrev:
Hos någon trevlig näthandlare som man kan lita på, rare wine i Tyskland till exempel... Mycket bra om man vill komplettera samlingen med några mogna godbitar...

Om det nu är http://rare-wine.de/ (Paulson) som Larsson tänker på kan det tilläggas att han snackar svenska. Om jag inte tar fel förser denne man Fine-magazinen med mycket av vad de provar när det gäller äldre prylar.
 

Andreas L

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Stämmer - jag har varit mycket nöjd med de gamla buteljer jag köpt, en Svensk i Tyskland känns lite mer pålitligt än t ex en Dansk i Belgien ;D
 

anders

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Priset på primörer från Bordeaux känns ganska överkomligt när man ser att förköpspriset på Egon Müllers 2009 TBA ligger på 3490 euro per helrör. Något är väldigt, väldigt sjukt inom vissa delar av vinbranchen...
 
Trådskapare
Jimmy Forsman

Jimmy Forsman

Missförstått geni. Gravt blygsam. Despot.
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Allas vår allvetande har ju slängt ut sina poäng, jag ska se om jag hittar någon bra sammafattning, men här är någonting att titta på i alla fall!

2010 Bordeaux Charts

2010 - THE VINTAGE’S GREATEST WINES

Angélus
Ausone
Beauséjour-Duffau
Belair-Monange
Branon
Cheval Blanc
Clinet
Clos Fourtet
La Conseillante
Cos d’Estournel
Croix de Labrie
Ducru Beaucaillou
Duhart Milon
L’Eglise Clinet
L’Evangile
Faugères Cuvée Spéciale Péby
La Fleur Petrus
Le Gay
Gracia
Haut-Bailly
Haut-Brion
Hosanna
D’Issan
Lafite Rothschild
Lafleur
Larcis Ducasse
Lascombes
Latour
Léoville Las Cases
Léoville Poyferré
Lynch Bages
Magrez-Fombrauge
Maléscot St.-Exupéry
Château Margaux
La Mission-Haut-Brion
La Mondotte
Montrose
Mouton Rothschild
Palmer
Pavie
Pavie Decesse
Pavie Macquin
Petrus
Pichon Longueville Baron
Le Pin
Pontet-Canet
Saint-Pierre
Smith-Haut-Lafitte
Troplong Mondot
Valandraud
Vieux Château Certan
La Violette

2010 - THE VINTAGE’S TOP PERFORMERS

Alary Haut-Brion
Alter Ego de Palmer
Angélots de Gracia
D’Armailhac
L’Arrosée
Les Astéries
Balthus
Barde-Haut
Batailley
Beau-Séjour Bécot
Beauregard
Belgrave
Bellefont Belcier
Bellevue
Bellevue Mondotte
Berliquet
Beychevelle
Bon Pasteur
Bouscat Cuvée Gargone
Bouscat Les Portes de l’Am
Boyd-Cantenac
Branaire-Ducru
Brane Cantenac
Calon Ségur
Cambon La Pelouse
Camensac
Canon
Canon La Gaffelière
Cantemerle
Cantenac Brown
Carbonnieux
La Carré
Carruades de Lafite
Certan de May
Chambrun
Chambrun Le Bourg
La Chapelle d’Ausone
La Chapelle de la Mission
Chauvin
Domaine de Chevalier
Le Clarence de Haut-Brion
Clément Pichon
Clerc Milon
Clos Badon
Clos du Clocher
Clos Dubreuil
Clos l’Eglise (Pomerol)
Clos des Jacobins
Clos du Marquis
Clos Marsalette
Clos de l’Oratoire
Clos Puy Arnaud
Clos Saint-Julien
Clos Saint-Martin
Clos de Sarpe
La Clotte
La Confession
Confiance Cuvée d’Exception Gérard Depardieu
Le Conseiller
Corbin
La Couspaude
Le Crock
La Croix de Beaucaillou
La Croix de Gay
La Croix Mouton
Croix de Perenne Cuvée d’Exception
La Croix Saint-Georges
Les Cruzelles
La Dame de Montrose
Dassault
Dauzac
Le Défi de Fontenil
Le Dôme
La Dominique
Durfort-Vivens
Egregore Cuvée d’Exception
Faugères
Feytit-Clinet
De Fieuzal
La Fleur de Boüard
Fleur Cardinale
La Fleur de Gay
La Fleur Morange
La Fleur Morange Mathilde
Fombrauge
Fonplégade
Fontenil
Les Forts de Latour
Fourcas Borie
Franc-Maillet Cuvée Jean Baptiste
Franc-Mayne
Gazin
Giscours
Gloria
Goulée
Grand-Mayne
Grand-Puy-Ducasse
Grand-Puy-Lacoste
Grandes-Murailles
La Grave à Pomerol
Les Gravières
Gruaud Larose
Haut-Bages-Liberal
Haut-Bergey
Haut-Brisson La Réserve
Haut-Carles
Haut-Gravet
Haut-Mazeris
Hortevie
Kirwan
Lafon Rochet
Laforge
Lagrange
La Lagune
Lalande Borie
Langoa Barton
Lassègue
Latour-Martillac
Latour à Pomerol
Léoville Barton
Lespault Martillac
Château Louis
Lucia
Lusseau
Magdelaine
Magrez-Tivoli Cuvée d’Exception
Malartic Lagravière
Marojallia
Marquis d’Alesme Becker
Meyney
Monbousquet
Le Moulin
Moulin-Haut-Laroque
Nenin
Les Pagodes de Cos
Pape-Clément
Pauillac
Pavillon Rouge du Château Margaux
Le Petit Cheval
Le Petit Mouton
Petit Village
De Pez
Phélan-Ségur
Pichon Longueville, Comtesse de Lalande
Pierre De Lune
La Plus de la Fleur de Boüard
La Pointe
Poujeaux
Prieure Lichine
Providence
Quinault l’Enclos
Rauzin-Gassies
Rauzan-Ségla
Reignac
Réserve de la Comtesse
La Réserve de Louis
Rol Valentin
La Roncheraie
Rouget
Sanctus
Secret de Cardinale
Seguin
Sérénité Cuvée d’Exception
Serilhan
Sociando Mallet
Talbot
Château Teyssier
La Thil Comte Clary
La Tour Carnet
La Tour du Pin
Tronquoy Lalande
Trotanoy
Trottevielle
La Vieille Cure
Vieux Château Mazeret
Villars
Virginie de Valandraud
Vrai Canon Bouché

2010 - SLEEPERS OF THE VINTAGE
(Where the correlation between high quality and reasonable pricing favors the consumer)

Domaine de l’A
D’Aiguilhe
D’Aiguilhe Querre
D’Angludet
D’Aurilhac
Belgrave
Belle-Vue
Bolaire
Bonalgue
Bouscat Cadus
Bouscat Cuvée Gargone
Bouscat Les Portes de l’Am
Cambon La Pelouse
Camensac
Carignan
Chambrun
Chambrun Le Bourg
Charmail
Clément Pichon
Clos Puy Arnaud
Le Conseiller
Corbin
Coufran
La Cour d’Argent
Domaine de Courteillac
Le Crock
La Croix Mouton
Croix de Perenne Cuvée d’Exception
Dalem
Dassault
Daugay
La Dauphine
L’Ecuyer
Egregore Cuvée d’Exception
D’Escurac
Feret-Lambert
La Fleur de Boüard
La Fleur de Jaugue
Fontenil
Fourcas Borie
De France
Gaby
La Garde
Gazin-Rocquencourt
Gigault Cuvée Viva
Girolate
Goulée
Grand-Corbin-Despagne
Grand-Ormeau
Les Grands Maréchaux
La Gravière
Greysac
Grée-Laroque
Jean de Gué
Haut-Bages-Liberal
Haut-Brisson
Haut-Brisson La Réserve
Haut-Carles
Haut-Condissas
Haut-Mazeris
Hortevie
Joanin-Bécot
Labégorce
Lafon Rochet
Lalande Borie
Lanessan
Larrivaux
Lespault Martillac
Liber Pater
Ma Verité Cuvée d’Exception Gérard Depardieu
La Mariotte
Méjean
Messile Aubert
Meyney
Moulin-Haut- Laroque
Les Ormes de Pez
Du Parc
Pauillac
Petrus-Gaia
De Pez
Phélan-Ségur
Pipeau
Pitray Cuvée Madame
La Plus de la Fleur de Boüard
Potensac
Poujeaux
La Prade
Récougne Vieilles Vignes
Reynon
La Rivière
Roland La Garde
Rollan de By
La Roncheraie
Séguin
Sénéjac
Sérénité Cuvée d’Exception
Serilhan
Simard
Tertre Daugay
Thieuley Réserve Francis Courselle
La Thil Comte Clary
Tiré Pe La Côte
La Tour du Pin
Tour Saint-Bonnet
Tour Séran
Trois-Croix
Tronquoy Lalande
La Vieille Cure
Vieux Château Palon
Vieux Clos St.-Emilion
Villars
Vrai Canon Bouché
 

chambertin

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Jimmy Forsman skrev:
Allas vår allvetande har ju slängt ut sina poäng, jag ska se om jag hittar någon bra sammafattning, men här är någonting att titta på i alla fall!
Såg det här förra veckan som ju var förvånansvärt insiktsfullt vad gäller priserna och den egentliga efterfrågan från vindrickande konsumenter på 2009.

Titus Andronicus
Insanity, Glory, Blood, Tears, Lust, Tragedy, Extravagance, Avarice, Violence and Mythology on the Gironde
It is almost painful to tell the story of another great vintage in Bordeaux. The fact that 2010 follows the superb 2009 vintage is remarkable as well. And of course, there is the potential for serious wine consumers who love Bordeaux to once again be bludgeoned with skyrocketing prices that are likely to exceed those that were asked for 2009. Yet the world continues to change, and it is an inescapable truth that 2010 has produced another year of compelling Bordeaux that will go down as a prodigious vintage alongside 2009. Take your pick – this news is either tragic or mythical, but I have tasted enough wines from 2005, 2009 and 2010 to realize that these may be the three greatest Bordeaux vintages I have tasted in my career.

2009 will always be the more “fun” vintage because of its more sumptuous, fruit-forward, lower acid wines with soaring aromatics as well as fleshy, exuberant flavors and plush, succulent personalities. Their style vaguely recalls ripe, precocious vintages such as 1982 and 1990. 2010 exceeds 2009 in record setting alcohols, but, paradoxically, it is the fresh acids, lower pHs and massive tannins that have dictated more precision in the mouth despite the record alcohol levels these wines attained. While massive and highly extracted, the 2010s are also fresh and incredibly pure. Moreover, they will enjoy astonishing longevity.
It is no secret that the finest Bordeaux vintages are dry (often drought-like) years when there is early, consistent flowering followed by gorgeous weather in September and October. The old saying, “June makes the quantity, August makes the style and September makes the quality,” has considerable merit, and it could be modified to include October along with September as making the quality. Most of the 2010 and 2008 crops were harvested extremely late, some well into the last weeks of October, as more and more producers seek full phenolic maturity.
The only problem 2010 encountered was a poor flowering with the Merlot crop, which reduced yields dramatically. Readers will hear the French use the words coulure, which means tiny “shot” berries, and millerandange, which is often referred to as “hens and chickens” that results from problematic weather during the flowering. Throughout Bordeaux, in the Médoc, Graves and Pomerol, the Merlot crop was affected dramatically by these conditions in 2010. However, the only effect was to reduce yields and ultimately, based on the weather that occurred subsequently, to increase concentration and extract levels in the grapes. 2010 was another drought year, but unlike 2009, the summer was more similar to 2005 with no dramatic heat waves, only extremely dry weather. Even though June turned out to be a warmer month than in either 2009 or 2005, it was also less sunny. That changed in July, which was warmer, sunnier and drier than both 2005 and 2009. This was followed by three months, August, September and October, that were cooler than both 2009 and 2005, but with drought-like conditions. In short, there was less precipitation from July through September than in 2009, 2005 and 2003. I think these statistics explain why the wines are so concentrated and rich, yet also have higher total acid numbers and lower pHs than 2009, thus giving the 2010s a freshness and precision that is the paradoxical characteristic of this vintage. Normally, incredible ripeness as was achieved in 2010 with alcohol levels averaging 13.8%-14.5% and higher in the Médoc and Graves to 15.5% and higher in Pomerol and St.-Emilion are accompanied by low acidities and suspiciously high pHs. That is not the case in 2010. The pHs are actually quite respectable, running between 3.5 and 3.8, and the total acids are normal as well. Add the extraordinary concentration of flavor and the high polyphenal levels with tannins that are often off the charts in terms of analytical readings, and readers can see that this is a massively concentrated vintage that will be less sumptuous and not nearly as friendly as 2009. In short, if there is any vintage that 2010 tends to resemble, it would be 2005, which was a great vintage of backward, dense, concentrated wines. 2010 has also turned out to be a top-flight vintage for the dry white Bordeaux as they seem to have levels of concentration and fruit that has produced the finest white wines Bordeaux has seen since 2007 (also a top vintage for dry whites).

I do not think it would be fair or prudent to say that 2010 exceeds in overall quality what was produced in 2009, 2005 or perhaps even 2000. However, it is unquestionably another great vintage. While Bob Dylan may have been talking about his own country when he wrote the song With God On Our Side, it sure looks as if fate has smiled on Bordeaux in an extraordinary way for much of the last decade with four great vintages (2000, 2005, 2009 and 2010). Moreover, the quality of the other vintages in that decade is very good.
If 2009 stood out for the historic richness and potential of the Médocs and some Graves and Pomerols, 2010 seems relatively homogeneous throughout Bordeaux. The Cabernet Sauvignon has once again done exceptionally well, while there may be a handful of Merlot-based wines where the tannins are unusually rustic and excessive, by and large this is a great vintage in every appellation. As time elapses, I do believe it will be the Cabernet Sauvignon-based wines that put on the most weight and reveal the greatest nuances.

The Global Marketplace and the Increasingly Intimidating Prices Asked for Great Bordeaux

The Bordeaux marketplace is a global one and more and more it is apparent that a caste system has developed. One could argue that this has existed ever since the famous 1855 Classification of the Wines of the Gironde was published. Today, the world is shocked by skyrocketing prices for 30 or 40 châteaux. Normally this would look like a bubble ready to burst. However, that does not look to be the case. The fact is, the demand continues to increase and the quantity of these wines remains the same as it has for decades. In fact, for many of these estates the selection process has become so draconian that there is actually less wine being produced than in the past. Much has been written about the investment firms in Great Britain that are allowed to purchase fine wine as an investment. That was a factor in 2009, and will be so again in 2010. Add to that the roaring Chinese economy where more millionaires are being created each day than in a month in the United States, and their propensity to love Bordeaux, and to want to buy the world’s finest wines, and readers can see there is too much upward pressure for the top 40 or so Bordeaux châteaux. However, some Bordeaux wines still represent phenomenal bargains, and, hopefully, many of them are covered in these reports. Additionally, in the middle category of $30-$75 a bottle offerings, there are many great wines that represent fabulous value in terms of world-class wines that will age for 25-30+ years.
In summary, the Chinese are buying fine art, jade and great Bordeaux, for both consumption and as a hedge against inflation. Combine that with the investment firms taking a position in the top Bordeaux châteaux, and all the conditions are there for continued high prices. I had hoped we would see a replay of what happened in 1990 when Bordeaux prices dropped after reaching record levels in 1989. However, I do not believe this will happen in 2011. Everywhere I went in Bordeaux the news seemed rather pessimistic that prices would remain stable or go up. In fact, most négociants and proprietors were talking about 15-20% increases as they watched their 2009s soar in value in secondary marketplaces.

What this all actually means is that readers need to forget about the first-growths, super-seconds and a handful of other limited production glamour wines as they will be beyond the reach of all but the wealthiest millionaires and billionaires. However, these represent only a tiny fraction of the entire Bordeaux production. There are many, many good values and great wines to be found at far lower prices. It makes sense to buy those wines as futures if you are dealing with a reputable merchant with a history of buying and delivering Bordeaux futures.

About the 2008s

This vintage came out at low prices and the top wines have soared in value. However, most 2008s remain somewhat forgotten and under-valued vis à vis the two subsequent vintages. These are classic and outstanding wines that represent excellent value. 2008 is an exceptionally strong vintage in Pomerol and St.-Emilion as well as Graves. The Médocs are more mixed, but as the following tasting notes indicate, there are some top wines in this vintage even though they may not hit the high marks of the sumptuous 2009s or massive 2010s.

What If?

Any serious introspection of the global wine market for Bordeaux over the last two years has to include the fact that it is impossible to determine the amount of 2009 Bordeaux futures (and in a few months, 2010 Bordeaux futures) that have actually been sold to consumers. Throughout Bordeaux there is talk of the massive market in Asia, and the increasing significance of the English wine investment firms, but there are those (and I wouldn’t dismiss their opinions) who tend to think that such assertions are grossly inflated. Moreover, they argue that there is a real bubble that is in danger of bursting if the right external influences unfold. One theory is that the Big Eight (which includes all the first growths of the Médoc as well as Haut-Brion and the trifecta of unofficial first growths of the Right Bank, Petrus, Cheval Blanc and Ausone) are actually hoarding huge inventories of their wines to inflate prices. This theory also suggests that the super seconds and many of the other cherished names in Bordeaux are doing the same thing. Why? They are trying to manipulate the market price. The appearance of little or no appreciable quantities of wine from two great vintages equals higher and higher prices. Is there a falsification of the demand from Asian consumers? The fact is, no one seems to know the answer. While some 2009s have not held their initial opening prices because they were too high, many have. If much of the 2009s, as well as the 2010s, are not sold through to wine consumers, who are the true marketplace since they actually drink these wines, and then tend to replenish their stock, buttressing the marketplace, then this is a bubble. Despite huge warehouses filled with reserve stocks of great vintages, prices could be set for a major adjustment, just as we have seen in the United States with the real estate market. What, if any of this, is true?
I raise this issue only because it is a possibility. The fact that no one can (or wants to) provide the actual sales figures of how much 2009 (or over the next six months, how much 2010) is actually being sold through to consumers is astonishing. If most of the stocks of these two vintages are held by importers, négociants, wholesalers, or on paper by investment firms, then it is obvious the consumers have not purchased 2009 and eventually 2010. In any event, I think this scenario has to be raised, given the overheated marketplace and the sometimes absurd rhetoric about how popular these wines are at prices of $1000 or more a bottle.

About the Tastings

All of the wines were tasted between March 19 and March 31, 2011, in both centralized and châteaux visits. With the exception of the first-growths and a handful of the super-seconds, most of these wines were tasted at least twice, some of them 3-5 separate times during the nearly two weeks I spent in Bordeaux. While one cannot control the weather in Bordeaux, I have generally had very good weather during the 32 years I have been visiting this region. I had perfect weather for tasting on this trip, meaning high pressure, no humidity and lots of sunshine. Not a drop of rain fell on 12 of the 13 days I was in Bordeaux. The weather can have an effect when tasting barrel samples, especially if a low depression descends on Bordeaux, and the weather is cold and rainy. None of these conditions developed during my visit. The wines, particularly the 2010 barrel samples, performed remarkably well with the exception of a handful that had just finished or were still undergoing malolactic fermentation. If that was the case, that was noted in the tasting notes.
—Robert Parker
 

widell

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Ser ut som dom ändrat tillbaka till den gamla PDF-filen igen... Oväntat...
 

Mmm

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Vad säger Larsson om Haut Condissas 2010 för 250 kr flaskan? Jag har aldrig provat vinet, men med tanke på LGs betyg borde det väl vara ett säkert fynd? Jag är bara lite orolig för alla noteringar om "overdone". Och att prova en flaska från SB lär vara omöjligt.
 

Mmm

Medlem
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Det är lite underrligt att nästan inga cru classé-viner nått primörmarknaden än? Förutom Beychevelle för 720 kr flaskan är det i princip tomt.

Kan det vara så att negocianterna och slotten bråkar om priserna? Men tanke på att Beychevelle kostar 720 kr, borde så Branaire kosta 1000 kr, Poyferre 2000 kr och Las Cases 5000 kr flaskan? Kan det vara så att de släppt Beychevelle till detta pris för att visa att man inte kan sälja vinerna till så höga priser?

Hemmasnickrad teori - någon med inside information får gärna svara!
 

magnum

Epernay, Frankrike
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Mmm skrev:
Det är lite underrligt att nästan inga cru classé-viner nått primörmarknaden än? Förutom Beychevelle för 720 kr flaskan är det i princip tomt.

Kan det vara så att negocianterna och slotten bråkar om priserna? Men tanke på att Beychevelle kostar 720 kr, borde så Branaire kosta 1000 kr, Poyferre 2000 kr och Las Cases 5000 kr flaskan? Kan det vara så att de släppt Beychevelle till detta pris för att visa att man inte kan sälja vinerna till så höga priser?

Hemmasnickrad teori - någon med inside information får gärna svara!
Ingen inside info! men Jeffords artikel i Decanter kanske kan ge lite klarhet ;D Beychevelle verkar poppis i Kina därav det höga priset annars verkar dom stora handlarna ha låg efterfrågan (enl. artikeln)....
 
Trådskapare
Jimmy Forsman

Jimmy Forsman

Missförstått geni. Gravt blygsam. Despot.
SV: Stora Primörvinstråden , diskussioner om primörviner.

Lite mer LÄSNING om någon är sugen.

Säg till om inte länken fungerar, då för jag fippla med den.
 
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